Forum Archive : Cheating

Using computer to aid online play

From:   Patti Beadles
Date:   27 January 2003
Subject:   Re: Jellyfish a way of cheating?
Google:   b140j9$c64$

> I would like to know whether anyone believes that jellyfish is a near
> perfect programme and whether it can be used to input moves and
> therefore cheat on other sites. I don't wish to do that myself but it
> is something that I was discussing with a partner the other day.

Jellyfish is better than most human players in theory, and perhaps
better than almost all of them in practice, since it will never
overlook a play.

Yes, it could in theory be used to cheat online.  It's a relatively
slow process to do it manually, though.

Peter Schneider  writes:

1. Two acquaintances of mine who I know from my Hamburg time tried the
   following simple setup: One of them played on FIBS while the other one
   was operating Snowie on a second computer, entering the dice and
   opponent's moves and telling how to move. Even at 3-ply, it reportedly
   is as fast as if you think yourself. If you play for significant
   amounts of money, you'll want to think a little then and when, won't
   you? Nobody can tell whether your buddy feeds Snowie instead.

2. Since gnubg is available in source code, it's no problem to program a
   FIBS client which moves gnubg's moves without any manual intervention
   except the kibitzes. Examples are the gnubg bots playing on FIBS and
   otaku's bots. gnubg is probably stronger than JellyFish.

3. Some sites which live from money games claim to check games with Snowie
   to detect whether one side actually moved the bot's moves. Well, gnubg
   allows you to set a "noise" factor. That means, it plays generally very
   strong but introduces a second or third best move from time to time, as
   any human would do. This is afaik not distinguishable from (still very
   strong) human play.

For all these reasons, I can only strongly discourage anybody from playing
online for significant amounts of money, except against good friends. And
who plays good friends for significant amounts of money?

Peter aka the juggler

Bob Ebbeler  writes:

It is far better to introduce the errors yourself, often using the most
"human" of the choices displayed, but at other times having to make up
moves on your own to appear credible.
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Advantages of online play  (Donald Kahn, Nov 1999) 
Avoiding loaded dice  (Gregg Cattanach, June 2000) 
Collusion in Monte Carlo  (Kit Woolsey, Aug 1995)  [Recommended reading]
Dealing with live-play cheating  (Gregg Cattanach+, May 2006) 
Dice magicians  (Paul Weaver, July 2010) 
Dice manipulation  (Paul Epstein, Nov 2005) 
Dice manipulation  (Kit Woolsey, Jan 1995)  [Recommended reading]
Gamesmanship vs. cheating  (Albert Steg+, May 1994) 
How to tell when somebody's cheating  (Michael Halpenny+, Feb 2001) 
How to tell you're playing a computer  (Douglas Zare, Dec 2003) 
Premature roll and late pick-up  (Ian Shaw, Feb 2002) 
Taking advantage of computer players  (Matthew J. Reklaitis, July 1997) 
Using computer to aid online play  (Paul Weaver, July 2006) 
Using computer to aid online play  (Ken Arnold+, Mar 2006) 
Using computer to aid online play  (Patti Beadles+, Jan 2003) 
With a baffle box  (Joe Russell, Aug 2009) 

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