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From:   Scott Steiner
Date:   4 April 2004
Subject:   Dailygammon and using programs as an aid


I'm thinking about joining dailygammon because I like to take more time
thinking about a position during play.  Question: are the players on
dailygammon fair and don't consult bots during a match?  If someone has
a lot of time to make a move then some people might get tempted to use a
bot as an aid, however, this would make the match a waste of time for me
because if I wanted to play gnubg then I would do so on my PC, and that
much faster.  So basically I'm asking how the subject of bot
consultation is handled on dailygammon, or on any other turnbased


Linda Lampe  writes:

While there may be a little of that, the vast majority of our players
enjoy the challenge of the game and don't want to or don't need to use a

It is difficult to know if someone is using a bot, so we don't normally
enforce any rules against it.  Rarely, someone may become suspicious and
run some matches through Snowie analysis.  Consistent 'world class' rating
usually suggests a bot is being used.

The more common problem is a player entering more than one user name in a
tournament, which we do not allow and enforce when such a case is found.

DailyGammon Help Desk

Rob Adams  writes:

I am very grateful to Jordan and dailygammon for just the reason you
mention here.  I like to take time on occasion to really think about a
play.  And at dailygammon I can do so without delaying the game(s).
And I believe my game has improved a lot as a result... even when I
play faster in real life or real time.

The quick answer is yes, the players are fair.  But you don't have to
take my or anyone's word for it.  All the matches are saved so you can
look at how anyone plays (if you look at my matches don't laugh too
hard please).  Snowie, gnubg, JellyFish, BGBlitz, or your favorite bot
will happily tell you that even the top players there are not in their

gandydancer  writes:

The competition on DailyGammon is *very* good and Rob Adams is one of
the stronger players on the site.  I enjoy my play at DG and don't
think bot consulting is much of a problem.  If someone is using a bot
during the match, I don't really care.  I am just there to improve my
game and playing against bots is one of the ways to improve.

Bob Newell  writes:

For turn-based play Dailygammon is as good as it gets.  It sets the
standard, and it's free to boot!

Michael Sullivan  writes:

It's a very nice site and there are a fair number of good
players there.  You won't the find the number of top players that you
will on gg, but I'm not aware of any that cheat with bots.  I'm sure it
happens with a few players, but there's no way it's widespread enough
that you might as well just play gnubg, anymore than it is on real-time
servers.  The biggest reason is: what's the upside to cheating since
there's no money on these games or any real major recognition for
winning tournaments?  You get a high rating!  Woop-de-doo when you know
it's bullshit.  That won't stop everybody, but it'll stop 95% of people
at least.

Note that the ratings there are excellent, but somewhat askew from the
gg standard.  Figure to subtract around 200-250 points from an
experienced player to get a gg equivalent.  Which means that a lot of
people there are very weak.  That said, it doesn't bother me much,
because as you play a lot of tournaments and get into the later rounds,
you end up playing most of your games against the top 200 players or so
(assuming you are strong enough to be one of them, so that you regularly
go deep into tournaments).  I have a friend who takes some moves for me
when I can't play that is rated about 200 pts below me -- he was really
surprised when he saw how many strong players I was playing.

It's true that you can't cherry pick your games and still have them
rated, but that also means that in tournaments you can get games with
the top players before you've built up a good rating and the better you
do, the more of them you will get.
Did you find the information in this article useful?          

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