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Forum Archive :
Play Sites
Play65/GammonEmpire--Withdrawal symptoms
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Dear reader,
Here is another case from Play65 where they have closed my account and
taken all the money that was on it, which is approximately 7,000 Euro. I
feel now that I have done almost anything I can do to get the money back
and it hasn't worked. I have read about the also recent case with Erik
Sørensen, and I am really happy that he managed to get his money back. If
anyone in this brilliant forum is able to somehow help this case in the
right direction, I will be forever grateful! ?
Here's what happened: In January this year I opened an account on Play65
with the nickname 'straigtflush'. I was very successful and won a lot of
money in a relatively short period of time: 7,000 Euro in about 6 weeks.
During the streak I ordered money to be withdrawn several times, but it
took a long time where nothing happened. At one point they sent me an e-
mail explaining that they had some technical difficulties with bank
transferring and asked me to provide my Neteller account. As I don't have a
Neteller, I kindly asked them to try again to send me the money via bank
transfer, which is my preferred way. I kept playing in the following days
and then suddenly, less than a week after that e-mail, my account was
closed -- no information, no explanation.
I contacted the support and asked what was going on, and they just answered
shortly that I had violated their rules and therefore were not able to play
again. I then asked what they referred to and they said I had been playing
on multiple accounts, including the account named 'Buller29' and 'Limdae'.
Needless to say, I know nothing about these accounts. Actually at one point
I remember that Limdae wanted to play against me, but I rejected that. In
the following mails (which I have also included in this post below) I
explained that I have only this one account and that I didn't know what
they were talking about. Then Jerry, from customer support, wrote me and
said that they could see that the accounts in question had all been playing
from the same IP-address.
And this is the key to this case. The Internet provider that I am using is
using a so-called NAT-router. If you are not familiar with this, here's
what it does: Network Address Translation (NAT) allows a single device,
such as a router, to act as an agent between the Internet (or "public
network") and a local (or "private") network. This means that only a
single, unique IP address is required to represent an entire group of
computers. This means that all the people who use this Internet provider
(maybe several thousand people), will appear to have the same IP address.
Here's a link for learning more about NAT:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/nat.htm.
I called my Internet provider and asked them how I could prove my
innocence, and they said that it is not possible to prove neither my guilt
nor my innonce. Tough luck.
When confronting Play65 with the fact that it is actually possible for
several accounts to appear as the same person (IP), without it being so,
they did not care at all. Jerry just said that my playing patterns were the
same as the other accounts and therefore they are sure that I have been
cheating.
I then wrote them two or three times to ask for their physical address and
for a contact person handling serious cases involving lawyers, which they
never replied to.
In the meantime I have been seeing a lawyer to find out what my options
are. And to be honest my prospects are not very good. Here's why: In
play65's terms and conditions they say;
> 4. Governing Law and Disputes By registering for an account in the Site
> and/or participating in any of the Games offered on the Site, you agree
> that any dispute relating to your activity and relationship with the Site
> and its operator, that cannot be resolved between the parties amicably
> shall be resolved individually, without resort to any form of class
> action. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of
> Israel without giving effect to its conflict of law principles. You agree
> to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction and venue of the courts in Tel
> Aviv, Israel for any dispute arising from or relating to this Agreement
> or to your activity in the Site.
Furthermore it says,
> 7. Restricted Activities You may not open more than one account per
> person, and per computer or address. You may not use any software or
> hardware to assist play. The Site will monitor any attempt to use such
> restricted aids, and shall immediately terminate your account upon
> discovery of such use. You may not consult with or help other players
> while they are playing, by using the chat, or by any other way. You may
> not intentionally loose in any games or try to otherwise manipulate your
> rating or achieve competitive advantage. You may not deliberately
> transfer money between accounts.
>
> You may not harass other participants, or post objectionable material
> including use of any offensive language. You may not send any "Spam"
> e-mails or messages, including (without limitation): (i) any unsolicited
> e-mail to a recipient (ii) repeatedly posting messages irrelevant to the
> discussion (iii) solicitation for any goods or services.
>
> THE SITE WILL MONITOR ANY PERFORMANCE OF ANY OF THE RESTRICTED ACTIVITIES
> LISTED ABOVE AND IN ANY EVENT THE COMPANY DEEMS THAT SUCH RESTRICTED
> ACTIVITY WAS PERFORMED IT SHALL IMMEDIATELY TERMINATE YOUR ACCOUNT
> WITHOUT NOTICE.
>
> Upon termination of your account, your membership in the Site will be
> cancelled, you will be prohibited from any future membership, and will
> not be permitted to participate in any Games.
Two times bad news: When opening an account one agrees that disputes shall
be governed by the laws of the State of Israel. Also, one agrees that if
the site deems that any illegal activities has been performed they can
close ones account without notice. God d** it!
The lawyer told me that it is possible to run a case, but it would be
extremely costly due to the fact that a court case should be run in Israel.
She advised me to try other (cheaper) ways to get the money back.
So here I am. I've been playing online backgammon and poker for some time
now, and I have never experienced such a poor and unjust treatment. I am
deeply disappointed and angry with the way Play65 has handled this case. Am
I not innocent till the opposite has been proved??
I want to thank you for having read this long post, and if any of you guys
can help me out here, I will be so grateful.
At this point I will not advise anybody to play at this site. It's simply
too risky and the people from the company I have been in contact with have
been far from polite and fair.
I have sent a copy of this post to play65.
Warm regards,
David Warmind (from Denmark). David.warmind@gmail.com
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David Alexander writes:
[David Alexander works for Play65.]
Thursday, 17 May 2007
Mr. Warmind,
I've looked into your claim and it seems to confirm our records. Overall
it seems to our moderators that something fishy was going on between you,
Limdae and Buller29 and a lot of money was passing through. The IPs
seemed too close to each others. Statistically, it's not the norm.
I managed to convince the big wigs here that Gammonline members are not
ordinary backgammon players, but experts on the game. So if they make
un-ordinary amounts of money via our service, it's not necessarily that
they have cheated, simply that they are very good players.
We have moderators in the first place because there are a lot of people
trying to commit fraud via our system. Our over commitment to protect
the MAJORITY of players must have caused this problem. Please except my
apologies for this misunderstanding.
Anyway, your account is reopened and your money released.
I hope to see you back among our players. David Alexander
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David Warmind writes:
Wednesday, 16 May 2007
Dear everybody, I have received this e-mail today from Play65:
> Hello David,
>
> Your play65 account straigtflush is now open for play and your current
> balance is available for withdrawal, by your request.
>
> Please provide us with your banking details, in order that we could wire
> you the balance. Nevertheless, you're welcomed to use it to continue
> playing our online Backgammon.
>
> In case you require further assistance, feel free to contact us.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Tammy,
> Accounting Department
> Play65.com
That's it! I have ordered the full amount to be withdrawn, 7,133.26 Euro,
and I do not intend to play there again.
I cannot thank all of you who have supported me in this case enough!! You
really made the difference. Thank you!
Best regards,
David
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