Forum Archive : Equipment

Meyer Dice Tube issues

From:   Stick
Date:   30 July 2010
Subject:   Meyer Dice Tube

I've seen it in action, I've used it, I've read the claims on the site.
Here are my issues with it.

> speeds up the game by completely eliminating re-rolls due to dice
> bouncing off the board or over the bar, landing on checkers, or due to
> cocked dice

It's true that no dice will bounce off the board nor over the bar nor even
land on checkers, but in using this contraption I estimate I cocked my dice
at least as many times as I would have using a regular set of dice. I was
assisting Bob Koca trying to verify that it was truly random (more on that
later) and I started counting how many times I cocked within' how many
rolls. I honestly forget the figure compared to the amount of rolls,
perhaps Bob remembers, but I believe I exceeded cocking the dice in the
tube 10 times in perhaps 200+ rolls? I wasn't trying to cock them, I was
flipping it over with one hand and putting on the table exactly as you're
supposed to.

> forever eliminates dice hitting a checker, knocking it out of position

Umm ... what?  Has anyone here ever seen a die knock a checker out of
place? Some damn hefty dice are being used or some airy checkers.

> completely eliminates any possibility of dice-cheating


> guarantees a random roll every time

Does it? Prove it to me then. Nowhere do I see tests of showing that by
using the tube will I be assured of random rolling. If I was going to try
to market such a product I would have done my homework and put my homework
out there for all to see in its glory along with recommendations on how
others can verify its randomness also.

> It is recommended that after you flip the tube for your roll, you place
> the tube on the table so that it is closer to you than your opponent, so
> there's never any confusion about whose turn it is. Once the dice have
> settled and you've made your move, you tap the top of the tube with your
> hand. Tapping the tube means your play is over.  Your opponent then grabs
> the tube, flips it over and sets it on the table (closer to him), and
> play continues.

This is a big part of what I hate. Every turn I have to reach clear over to
my opponent's side of the board, bring the tube back, and flip it over.

And the tube is not great for spectators.  The great part about dice on a
board is that they're dice ... on a board. In plain view for many onlookers
to see. If you try to see the dice in the bottom of the tube you end up
contorting yourself for the best angle constantly and I can't even imagine
if there was a crowd of people trying to watch a match how many of them
would be able to follow.

Perhaps part of my bias against this stems from my same hatred of baffle
boxes. I don't see the need and I find them a detraction from the game. If
precision dice are being used, if lipped cups are being used, if the rules
are being followed there is little or no use for these gadgets.

Brett Meyers  writes:

Regardless of how the statement reads, it was certainly not my intent to
claim that my Dice Tube completely eliminates cocked dice.  In fact, if you
go to the site, you'll see that I explain how to deal with cocked or
stacked dice: "Occasionally (approximately once every 100 or so flips), a
die will land cocked in the bottom of the tube or stacked one on top of the
other.  If this happens, confirm with your opponent and flip again."

Stick asked me to prove that a dice tube "guarantees a random roll every
time."  In January, 2009, my wife and I spent several days recording data
from a trial of 3,000 flips using a tube WITH NO RODS containing two 9/16"
precision dice. Even with NO rods installed, randomness was achieved!
(Doubles resulted 16.63% with an average pip of 8.171).

adambulldog  writes:

I used the tube for the first time today, in a match against Rich Munitz,
who was evangelizing the tube all weekend. I thought the tube was great--no
cocked dice the whole match. I agree with those who have pointed out that
the tube is no good for big spectator matches or for broadcasting, but I do
think it is great for regular tournament matches or for casual play.

At the Madison club there is one guy who routinely disputes the numbers on
the dice after they have been picked up, and another who rolls off the
board maybe 10 or 15 percent of the time. Both those problems are
eliminated with the tube.

Rich Munitz  writes:

Sure, everything will have positives and negatives. But I have to say from
having played numerous matches with a dice tube that I think it is
absolutely fabulous.

First of all, the tubes have removable end caps. You pick the two dice to
use exactly the same way as you would with clocks and you drop them into
the tube and put the end cap back on.

I find that cocked dice definitely happen -- perhaps a handful of times per
match. But the frequency is really an order of magnitude reduced from
normal dice rolling.

Use of the tube significantly speeds up play. I find it to create a flow
more like playing online where you click the dice and get a roll. I've
consistently found when using a clock that you've used under 2 seconds of
delay to produce your roll. And very rare cocked dice. And 100% of the
time, it is never necessary to touch or reposition the dice on the board
because they are in the way of or stuck between the checkers. Having the
dice on the playing surface has negatives as well.

Who's turn is it? Every match I've played so far, nobody has paid attention
to putting the tube closer to the roller. I think once there was a question
about who's roll it was. That was after someone came over and distracted

Dice cheating? Just like there's no escape-proof prison, nothing can truly
be cheat-proof. However, having two dice selected by the players and then
enclosed in a tube, always in full view, and where nobody can ever touch
the dice goes a long way in my book towards minimizing the concern of
Did you find the information in this article useful?          

Do you have any comments you'd like to add?     



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