Rulings

Forum Archive : Rulings

 
Rolling wrong dice

From:   TarHeelFan
Address:   jeb@carolina.rr.com
Date:   14 September 2005
Subject:   Ruling question
Forum:   GammOnLine

Player A and B begin a match, each with one white and one black die. (I
know, you can already see this one coming. ;-) Player A wins the opening
roll and makes his play. Player B, who usually plays with a clock, picks
up both dice and drops them in his cup. Player A requests his die back.
Player B apologizes and tosses out a white die, which Player A drops in
his cup. Player B then rolls -- two black dice.

Ruling #1: Does the roll stand?

Ruling #2: Do the players continue with the matching dice, swap one, or
mix all four dice and re-select?

Tom Keith  writes:

I think a strict reading of the rules suggests the roll should not stand
-- you have to roll your own dice.

Daniel  writes:

I'd rule that the roll counts (we assume any 2 of the 4 dice give a fair
roll, and the time for Player A to object to the roll because one of the
dice was his was before the roll, not after), and have the players
exchange a black for a white, or remix all four dice.

Barry Murphy  writes:

With the assumption that all four dice are valid dice, then I say let
the roll stand. It's a random number just as good as any other.

Ilia Guzei  writes:

As soon as player A accepted his die (even of a wrong color) each player
has "his" dice, so when player B rolls he rolls "his" dice, not his
opponent's.

Neil Kazaross  writes:

I would apply my best common sence and fairness.

1) The roll stands and 2) the players can then re-choose amoung the 4
dice if they wish after this roll.

TarHeelFan  writes:

Thanks for all the replies. There was no gamesmanship involved. The
players asked for a ruling because they didn't know how the situation
should be handled in a "real" tourney -- this was at a weekly club
meeting. Also, the number rolled swung a lot of equity.

I had left the meeting early, and made my ruling by cell phone while
driving down I-485. Without knowing the roll or situation, I ruled the
roll stands and they can finish the game/match with whatever dice they
like.

Chuck Bower  writes:

I agree the roll should stand. Why should a legal dice roll ever be
allowed to be negated by either player? This seems to make room for
"taking a shot" as Kit calls it -- accepting or rejecting the roll after
seeing the dice. If the question is "is rolling a die which wasn't yours
at the beginning of the game part of a legal roll?", the fact that
answering yes prevents such a shot seems reason enough.

As a general comment, I think it's worth emphasizing that many
backgammon players (including tournament players) are superstitious. To
say "it doesn't matter whose dice were whose" only makes sense to the
unsuperstitious.
 
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Rulings

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Crawford game double  (Claes Thornberg+, Apr 1998) 
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Misplacing a checker off the board  (Sam Pottle+, Apr 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplacing a checker on the bar  (Jeb Horton, Dec 2002)  [GammOnLine forum]
Moving checkers before you roll  (Gregg Cattanach+, Mar 2006) 
Moving with two hands  (Jason Lee+, Jan 2011) 
Opening roll loser picks up his die  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Marty Storer+, Mar 2005)  [GammOnLine forum] [Long message]
Playing to wrong match length  (Steve Mellen, Feb 1998) 
Playing wrong opponent  (Hank Youngerman+, Oct 2005) 
Premature actions  (Raccoon+, Feb 2008)  [GammOnLine forum]
Premature roll  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Repositioning dice without notice  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rerolling cocked dice too quickly  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling 2 dice instead of 1 to start  (Bob Koca+, Oct 2007) 
Rolling when opponent is closed out  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling wrong dice  (TarHeelFan+, Sept 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Taking photos of positions  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 
Touching the doubling cube  (Ken Bame+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Touching the doubling cube  (Chuck Bower+, Apr 1998) 
Two cubes on the board  (Jason Lee+, July 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Video dispute resolution  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2006) 
When are the dice "up"?  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Writing down positions  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]

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