Forum Archive : Rulings

Rolling wrong dice

From:   TarHeelFan
Date:   14 September 2005
Subject:   Ruling question
Forum:   GammOnLine

Player A and B begin a match, each with one white and one black die. (I
know, you can already see this one coming. ;-) Player A wins the opening
roll and makes his play. Player B, who usually plays with a clock, picks
up both dice and drops them in his cup. Player A requests his die back.
Player B apologizes and tosses out a white die, which Player A drops in
his cup. Player B then rolls -- two black dice.

Ruling #1: Does the roll stand?

Ruling #2: Do the players continue with the matching dice, swap one, or
mix all four dice and re-select?

Tom Keith  writes:

I think a strict reading of the rules suggests the roll should not stand
-- you have to roll your own dice.

Daniel  writes:

I'd rule that the roll counts (we assume any 2 of the 4 dice give a fair
roll, and the time for Player A to object to the roll because one of the
dice was his was before the roll, not after), and have the players
exchange a black for a white, or remix all four dice.

Barry Murphy  writes:

With the assumption that all four dice are valid dice, then I say let
the roll stand. It's a random number just as good as any other.

Ilia Guzei  writes:

As soon as player A accepted his die (even of a wrong color) each player
has "his" dice, so when player B rolls he rolls "his" dice, not his

Neil Kazaross  writes:

I would apply my best common sence and fairness.

1) The roll stands and 2) the players can then re-choose amoung the 4
dice if they wish after this roll.

TarHeelFan  writes:

Thanks for all the replies. There was no gamesmanship involved. The
players asked for a ruling because they didn't know how the situation
should be handled in a "real" tourney -- this was at a weekly club
meeting. Also, the number rolled swung a lot of equity.

I had left the meeting early, and made my ruling by cell phone while
driving down I-485. Without knowing the roll or situation, I ruled the
roll stands and they can finish the game/match with whatever dice they

Chuck Bower  writes:

I agree the roll should stand. Why should a legal dice roll ever be
allowed to be negated by either player? This seems to make room for
"taking a shot" as Kit calls it -- accepting or rejecting the roll after
seeing the dice. If the question is "is rolling a die which wasn't yours
at the beginning of the game part of a legal roll?", the fact that
answering yes prevents such a shot seems reason enough.

As a general comment, I think it's worth emphasizing that many
backgammon players (including tournament players) are superstitious. To
say "it doesn't matter whose dice were whose" only makes sense to the
Did you find the information in this article useful?          

Do you have any comments you'd like to add?     



Checker knocked off bar  (Chuck Bower+, Sept 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Clock rules and gin positions  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Clock rules end of turn  (Jason Lee+, Dec 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Cocked dice  (Rodney Lighton+, July 2012) 
Cocked dice  (Ed Rosenblum+, Dec 2009) 
Cocked dice  (Chuck Bower+, July 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Cocked die on first roll  (Cloyd Laporte+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Øystein Johansen+, June 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Joe+, May 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Raccoon+, Sept 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Claes Thornberg+, Apr 1998) 
Dice sliding  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Disagreement on final cube  (Chuck Bower+, May 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Disagreement over cocked dice  (DeaconBlue+, May 2005) 
Disputed roll  (Roland Scheicher+, Mar 2004) 
Disputed roll  (Chuck Bower+, Mar 2000) 
Doubling to wrong value  (Stein Kulseth+, Nov 1998) 
Equipment changes  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Error in setup  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 
Incorrect setup  (Ken+, Mar 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Kibitzing  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplaced cube  (Ned Cross+, Mar 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplacing a checker off the board  (Sam Pottle+, Apr 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplacing a checker on the bar  (Jeb Horton, Dec 2002)  [GammOnLine forum]
Moving checkers before you roll  (Gregg Cattanach+, Mar 2006) 
Moving with two hands  (Jason Lee+, Jan 2011) 
Opening roll loser picks up his die  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Marty Storer+, Mar 2005)  [GammOnLine forum] [Long message]
Playing to wrong match length  (Steve Mellen, Feb 1998) 
Playing wrong opponent  (Hank Youngerman+, Oct 2005) 
Premature actions  (Raccoon+, Feb 2008)  [GammOnLine forum]
Premature roll  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Repositioning dice without notice  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rerolling cocked dice too quickly  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling 2 dice instead of 1 to start  (Bob Koca+, Oct 2007) 
Rolling when opponent is closed out  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling wrong dice  (TarHeelFan+, Sept 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Taking photos of positions  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 
Touching the doubling cube  (Ken Bame+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Touching the doubling cube  (Chuck Bower+, Apr 1998) 
Two cubes on the board  (Jason Lee+, July 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Video dispute resolution  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2006) 
When are the dice "up"?  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Writing down positions  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]

[GammOnLine forum]  From GammOnLine       [Long message]  Long message       [Recommended reading]  Recommended reading       [Recent addition]  Recent addition

  Book Suggestions
Computer Dice
Cube Handling
Cube Handling in Races
Extreme Gammon
Fun and frustration
GNU Backgammon
Luck versus Skill
Magazines & E-zines
Match Archives
Match Equities
Match Play
Match Play at 2-away/2-away
Opening Rolls
Pip Counting
Play Sites
Probability and Statistics
Source Code
Strategy--Bearing Off
Strategy--Checker play


Return to:  Backgammon Galore : Forum Archive Main Page