Forum Archive : Rulings

Premature roll From:   Chris Yep Date:   7 December 2007 Subject:   Re: New U.S. Rules ratified Forum:   GammOnLine Regarding US rule 4.6 (Premature Actions) [see http://www.bkgm.com/tournaments/US-Backgammon-2008.html], how will this rule be used in conjunction with Clock rule 4.1 (Mishandling Dice) [see http://www.bkgm.com/tournaments/US-Backgammon-Clock-2007.html]? If a player grabs the dice early (before his opponent has ended his turn) and rolls, this roll is valid under US rule 4.6; however, clock rule 4.1 states that he "must wait until his deductible has counted down to zero before rolling his dice." How will these two rules be reconciled in practice? Bill Davis  writes: This is a good question, Christopher. In practice, however, this occurance is extremely rare and I have never heard of it happening. Here is what would have to occur: 1. With the clock in action, the player is completing his move while the opponent picks up the dice. At this point, the player could demand a penalty, but he doesn't. 2. The opponent is now shaking his dice while the player's clock is still counting down. At this point, the player could demand a penalty, but he doesn't. 3. The opponent rolls the dice creating the need for a ruling. Part of my ruling would depend on the actual game situation. For example, if the players were involved in the final stages of a bear-off, my ruling would be different than if the position was a complex middle game where the player could benefit from seeing his opponent's roll. There are also time considerations that would have to be rectified. It would be impossible to write a rule that could cover all the imaginable variables. Our rules are a guide; problems like these are cases where fairness must be the final criteria. Good directors will call a committee prior to making a ruling in instances like this. Chris Yep  writes: Thanks for the answer, Bill. I agree that it's probably been an extremely rare occurrence so far. However, I wonder if it will become a more common occurrence now that US Rule 4.6 has changed. There are at least two reasons why a player may not demand a penalty in #1 and #2 above: 1. He wants foreknowledge of the next roll (thus he hopes that his opponent will roll the dice). 2. The position is complex. He wants the opportunity to pause the clocks, signal the director (or send a spectator to fetch the director), and continue thinking about the position during the 30-90 seconds that might elapse before the director is able to walk over to the board. Perhaps I'm overthinking this; in my experience, few backgammon players engage in gamesmanship. (Is the above considered gamesmanship?) Still, I wonder if it will become more common with the change of US Rule 4.6.   Did you find the information in this article useful?           Do you have any comments you'd like to add?

 

Rulings

Checker knocked off bar  (Chuck Bower+, Sept 2003) 

Clock rules and gin positions  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 

Clock rules end of turn  (Jason Lee+, Dec 2007) 

Cocked dice  (Rodney Lighton+, July 2012) 

Cocked dice  (Ed Rosenblum+, Dec 2009) 

Cocked dice  (Chuck Bower+, July 2003) 

Cocked die on first roll  (Cloyd Laporte+, Nov 2006) 

Crawford game double  (Øystein Johansen+, June 2004) 

Crawford game double  (Joe+, May 2004) 

Crawford game double  (Raccoon+, Sept 2003) 

Crawford game double  (Claes Thornberg+, Apr 1998) 

Dice sliding  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 

Disagreement on final cube  (Chuck Bower+, May 2004) 

Disagreement over cocked dice  (DeaconBlue+, May 2005) 

Disputed roll  (Roland Scheicher+, Mar 2004) 

Disputed roll  (Chuck Bower+, Mar 2000) 

Doubling to wrong value  (Stein Kulseth+, Nov 1998) 

Equipment changes  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2004) 

Error in setup  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 

Incorrect setup  (Ken+, Mar 2004) 

Kibitzing  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006) 

Misplaced cube  (Ned Cross+, Mar 2004) 

Misplacing a checker off the board  (Sam Pottle+, Apr 2006) 

Misplacing a checker on the bar  (Jeb Horton, Dec 2002) 

Moving checkers before you roll  (Gregg Cattanach+, Mar 2006) 

Moving with two hands  (Jason Lee+, Jan 2011) 

Opening roll loser picks up his die  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007) 

Playing to wrong match length  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006) 

Playing to wrong match length  (Marty Storer+, Mar 2005) 

Playing to wrong match length  (Steve Mellen, Feb 1998) 

Playing wrong opponent  (Hank Youngerman+, Oct 2005) 

Premature actions  (Raccoon+, Feb 2008) 

Premature roll  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 

Repositioning dice without notice  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007) 

Rerolling cocked dice too quickly  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006) 

Rolling 2 dice instead of 1 to start  (Bob Koca+, Oct 2007) 

Rolling when opponent is closed out  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006) 

Rolling wrong dice  (TarHeelFan+, Sept 2005) 

Taking photos of positions  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 

Touching the doubling cube  (Ken Bame+, Nov 2006) 

Touching the doubling cube  (Chuck Bower+, Apr 1998) 

Two cubes on the board  (Jason Lee+, July 2005) 

Video dispute resolution  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2006) 

When are the dice "up"?  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006) 

Writing down positions  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006) 

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