Forum Archive : Rulings

Dice sliding

From:   Chris Yep
Date:   7 December 2007
Subject:   Re: New U.S. Rules ratified
Forum:   GammOnLine

Regarding new US rule 4.6 (Premature Actions) [see], I know there was
some discussion a few months ago about the practice of dice sliding. E.g.,
a player makes a legal move, starts to slide his dice across the board
without lifting them from the board's surface, changes his mind, and then
removes his hand from the dice. Has his turn ended? What did the committee
eventually decide?

Note that if the ruling is that his turn has not ended, then rule 4.6
encourages players to enforce rule 4.5 (Lifting Dice) more rigorously if
they roll prematurely. (If they really did see the dice lift a fraction of
a millimeter and they don't enforce rule 4.5, then rule 4.6 comes into play
and their opponent can move with the foreknowledge of the next dice roll.)

Rule 4.5 also gives an unscrupulous player an angle -- even if he thinks
the dice never left the playing surface, he can simply claim that he saw a
die leave the board's surface by a fraction of a millimeter. All he has to
do is call over the tournament director and make this claim; the dispute
will almost surely be resolved in his favor since the dice-slider did not
give "notice" that he was "repositioning his dice ... to facilitate moving
the checkers."

Bill Davis  writes:

> A player makes a legal move, starts to slide his dice across the board
> without lifting them from the board's surface, changes his mind, and then
> removes his hand from the dice. Has his turn ended?

Here is another rule where the Directors judgment is called into play. The
rules state that the player who repositions his dice without giving notice
"will be at a disadvantage" in the event of a dispute. If the dice are
rolled in the very corner of the board and the player immediately moves
them into the center of the board to see them better, there will be no
penalty, even if the player has not given notice that he was adjusting the

But after looking over the position, the Director determines that the
player who has legally completed his move is sliding his dice preparing to
pick them up, then his roll will be determined completed because the player
didn't give repositioning notice. This stops the "shot" of the player
dragging his dice to evoke an opponents fast roll.

What if the player has made an illegal move and is sliding his dice, then
discovers his error prior to the actual "pickup"? Then the Director should
rule that his move is not complete even if he didnt give notice that he
was repositioning his dice.

For clarity, ABT directors suggest that players do not roll their dice
until their opponent's dice are actually off the playing surface.
Additionally, it is good practice to state "Adjusting" prior to moving the
dice if the player's intent is not to pick them up and complete the move.
Did you find the information in this article useful?          

Do you have any comments you'd like to add?     



Checker knocked off bar  (Chuck Bower+, Sept 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Clock rules and gin positions  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Clock rules end of turn  (Jason Lee+, Dec 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Cocked dice  (Rodney Lighton+, July 2012) 
Cocked dice  (Ed Rosenblum+, Dec 2009) 
Cocked dice  (Chuck Bower+, July 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Cocked die on first roll  (Cloyd Laporte+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Øystein Johansen+, June 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Joe+, May 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Raccoon+, Sept 2003)  [GammOnLine forum]
Crawford game double  (Claes Thornberg+, Apr 1998) 
Dice sliding  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Disagreement on final cube  (Chuck Bower+, May 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Disagreement over cocked dice  (DeaconBlue+, May 2005) 
Disputed roll  (Roland Scheicher+, Mar 2004) 
Disputed roll  (Chuck Bower+, Mar 2000) 
Doubling to wrong value  (Stein Kulseth+, Nov 1998) 
Equipment changes  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Error in setup  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 
Incorrect setup  (Ken+, Mar 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Kibitzing  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplaced cube  (Ned Cross+, Mar 2004)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplacing a checker off the board  (Sam Pottle+, Apr 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Misplacing a checker on the bar  (Jeb Horton, Dec 2002)  [GammOnLine forum]
Moving checkers before you roll  (Gregg Cattanach+, Mar 2006) 
Moving with two hands  (Jason Lee+, Jan 2011) 
Opening roll loser picks up his die  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Playing to wrong match length  (Marty Storer+, Mar 2005)  [GammOnLine forum] [Long message]
Playing to wrong match length  (Steve Mellen, Feb 1998) 
Playing wrong opponent  (Hank Youngerman+, Oct 2005) 
Premature actions  (Raccoon+, Feb 2008)  [GammOnLine forum]
Premature roll  (Chris Yep+, Dec 2007) 
Repositioning dice without notice  (Chuck Bower+, Oct 2007)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rerolling cocked dice too quickly  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling 2 dice instead of 1 to start  (Bob Koca+, Oct 2007) 
Rolling when opponent is closed out  (Raccoon+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Rolling wrong dice  (TarHeelFan+, Sept 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Taking photos of positions  (Stick+, Dec 2007) 
Touching the doubling cube  (Ken Bame+, Nov 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Touching the doubling cube  (Chuck Bower+, Apr 1998) 
Two cubes on the board  (Jason Lee+, July 2005)  [GammOnLine forum]
Video dispute resolution  (Jason Lee+, Feb 2006) 
When are the dice "up"?  (Ilia Guzei+, Feb 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]
Writing down positions  (Klaus Evers+, Jan 2006)  [GammOnLine forum]

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